Tish Squillaro 0:00

Hi everyone, this is Tish Guilero and welcome to Candor with Tish. Today I have a special guest, Maddie Newbier, founder and co-CEO of VCiefs, a company I actually got to work with with one of my clients. I'm really excited to have her here today. I met with one of her members of her executive team as we fulfilled some of the gaps for one of my clients, which was just amazing. Her flexible executive staffing firm helps organizations add leadership capacity, fill key gaps, accelerate growth. A Stanford and Columbia Business School graduate, she has built an award-winning company while championing a smarter way to work and lead. Welcome, Maddie. I'm very excited to have you here today.

Maddy Niebauer 0:37

Thanks so much, Tish.

Tish Squillaro 0:38

I'm so happy to be here. And yes, I was excited when I saw your company name because I had a client several years ago that uh highly recommended your business. Oh, that's okay. I'm so glad to hear that. Because you have a unique way of finding the right talent for a leadership team. And that's not easy because leaders have trouble building their own leadership teams. So my first question is, you know, how do you know how to find that right fit for an organization that you're not part of, but you get to meet a couple of minutes to each of the leaders or maybe the the leader? How do you navigate that?

Maddy Niebauer 1:14

Yeah. Well, when we think about matching, because we have a pool of talent of over 400 senior executive leaders who we place into roles with our companies, we think about who from that pool of talent is the right fit for that company. And there's a number of different things we think about. First and foremost is functional expertise. So we do a lot in the strategy and operations space. So we staff chiefs of staff, COO, CFO, HR roles. And so just knowing what challenges the company is facing or what positions they're looking to fill is the first step of the process. And sometimes that might seem like an easy thing, but sometimes in each of those roles, there might be, you know, a specific nuance. Even in HR, are they doing more hiring or are they rethinking their HR strategy or are they putting in a new HR system, right? And so different people in our pool of talent have different expertise even within each of those sub-areas. So that's one. And then we also think about industry background. We have people across the nonprofit and the for-profit sectors. Within each of those, we have people with different expertise in in different industries. And so where a client is looking for something really specific, we try to find someone from our talent pool to match that. Sometimes location is important to them. We typically work virtually, but sometimes time zones matter. And then I think the trickier thing to match for is really more work style and personality and how well is this leader going to work with this person. And I think there's a couple of things there. One, you know, we ask some probing questions to try to suss out any areas that might be red flags for clients or like real non-negotiables or ways of operating that are important to know before we jump in. And then the other thing I would say is just really more about our own hiring practices and the types of people who we have in our talent pool because those people that we hire, we really look for people who are able to work autonomously and really take a project and run with it and not need someone to sort of hold their hand or guide them along. And so I think that uh more than anything is what we hear from clients is that they're amazed at how quickly our people can jump in and really make a difference with their executive teams.

Tish Squillaro 3:35

Well, I saw it firsthand. You you definitely found a terrific hire, fractional. I mean, it wasn't full-time, but it was a unique group. And you're right, you know, skill and industry experience are going to be top-notch, right? Because they have to fit that. But that behavioral side, right? I mean, I work a lot on just building the team chemistry, but when you have someone being parachuted in to fit an existing world, and they probably have lots they don't know about what actually goes on, that's a tough spot to be in. So you're right, you must have very unique criteria as you try to find one of those utility players that have to go in, parachute and fix, because usually that's what they're doing, when sometimes companies don't want fix. And I mean, I know you and I probably have similar war stories that you know they want us to help, but actually when we tell them what we need to do, that's not what they really want. And we have to then convince them that, well, you need this. So have you ever been in a situation as a, you know, one of the executives you helped put in fit your criteria, fit even the client's criteria, but they struggled to foster impact because it really wasn't what the company was ready for.

Maddy Niebauer 4:52

Yeah. What I would say is there are certain examples that I can think of where it either wasn't a match because of sort of a style difference, right? Like we had one leader who was publishing a book and putting it out, and she wanted someone to come in and sort of give her a strategy to do that. And the challenge was we sent her someone who was really consultative and was asking her a lot of questions and like trying to have her take the lead and tell us what to do. And what she really wanted was someone who's just going to come in there and be the expert and say, This, you need to do X, Y, and Z, right? So that's sort of a stylistic difference. It's not that the person wasn't, didn't bring the skills they needed. She just wanted them to operate in a different mode.

Tish Squillaro 5:35

The approach was different.

Maddy Niebauer 5:36

Yeah. And I think the other thing that often happens, and you a little bit alluded to this, is sometimes leaders think they know what they want, or maybe they know what they want or what they need, but they're not willing to let go of control and trust someone else to do that. And so that's something that we try to suss out with our clients before we start with them to make sure, like, are you in fact ready to move forward on these things? And in cases where they're not, you know, we may need to lean in in different ways or different parts of our team might reach out to that leader and talk through what feels like a challenge or feels like something that they can't let go and sort of coach them through that. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, right? I mean, our success rate is incredibly high, like 97% of our clients would consider our work a success with them. But, you know, there are those rare cases where they're just not, they think they're ready, but they're not.

Tish Squillaro 6:28

And it's probably the right level of hires you're supporting. They're already strategic and senior. And so they can handle themselves, hopefully, we think. They can handle themselves in sticky situations, which is when you are coming into an existing environment. You have to know how to play into the game that's currently going on and then manufacture ways to navigate to the right place to be. That doesn't happen overnight.

Maddy Niebauer 6:55

And I think one of the things, especially in a chief of staff role, which is a lot of what we do, those people have to be really good at influencing other people, but they don't directly manage, right? And so it's really about understanding people's like underlying motivations for what they're pushing for and being able to really read the different motivations in the room and figure out how to get people on the same page. And so I think our people are pretty savvy at that and pretty good at working through group dynamics where maybe one person on the leadership team wants one thing and the other wants a different, and you sort of have to walk that fine line, especially as an outsider, right? There are advantages to that because you know you're not gonna have to live in that culture forever. So sometimes, like you can say the hard thing that other people who are gonna stay there might not be ready to say. Um, but you always have to deliver it with the right professional grab pass that.

Tish Squillaro 7:51

Yeah, it's not what you say, but how you say it, as my mother would say to me many years ago, and I rolled my eyes, and today I tell my kids that like it's not what you say, it's how you're saying it that's coming across because it's true. Now, let me take a step back in your business. I'm sure you have your own leadership team. I mean, you know, the shoemaker without the good shoes. How did you manufacture? You have a co-CEO title, so there's two CEOs. How have you structured your team and what was it like to build your team when it's, you know, it's what you do for others?

Maddy Niebauer 8:24

Yeah. Well, interestingly, a little bit I practice what I preach. So uh V Chief started 10 years ago, and for the first five years, we actually only had fractional executives supporting me to run the organization centrally, right? And then we had an incredible growth spur post-COVID, and we added like 15 people to our central team in a nine-month period, which is absolutely bonkers. But we 10x'd in three years, and it was it was just a really intense growth time, right? So, what that looked like in practice was oh no, we have this fire over here. We're gonna hire some people for that. Oh no, we have a fire over here, we're gonna hire people for that. And I wish I could say it was like super strategic at the time. It did start out a bit strategic. I I wanted to grow. And I hired one of our consultants, was doing some work for one of our clients in business development and having wild success. And I was like, oh, can you do that for me? Can you do that for Beachy? And so she was happy to do that and she built our business development plan and then started hiring our sales team. And every time there was a new challenge, she would sort of take it on. So, first it was the sales and marketing, and then our finance function fell apart because we had these outsourced people and it didn't work out, and we had to redo the whole thing and hire internally. So she took that over. And so it ended up, she just kept taking over more and more of the team. And she then ultimately became my co-CEO because she ended up being the one who was running everything internally. And then I was focused more externally and doing more brand building and speaking, things like that. And that's how we sort of divided the duties in terms of co-CEOs. And I actually had to step back from the business a little bit a few years ago. And so she leaned in a little bit harder and runs most of the day-to-day now.

Tish Squillaro 10:19

Which is tricky. I mean, when you're the founder, and I've worked with a lot of founders, to be able to bring someone in and let them drive. Again, like everything else, it's you know, you almost have to tape your hands to your legs so you don't move, right? Let them drive, and they may drive differently, but they're still driving. And then also share in the decision making, right? So the other piece is you're so used to making decisions quickly, this, this, this, this, and all of a sudden you have to console or talk to, you know, someone else about making decisions. So that was a big growth step for you, I would imagine, right? Because that's not easy.

Maddy Niebauer 10:55

It's true. And we actually spend a lot of time with our clients talking about zone of genius and how do you stay in your zone of genius as a leader? So really thinking about the intersection of things that you are great at, things that you love doing, things that will move the business forward, and things that no one else is going to be as good as as you are at those things. And that intersection is really your zone of genius. And how do you stay focused on that area and everything else that is a perpetual fire drill that is happening around you? How do you get that off your plate? How does that not become the thing that's taking over your mind and your to-do list and your calendar every day? And so that is something that we help clients get to that space where they can really focus where they have the most impact. But I had to do that too. And that is hard work to say, like, oh, this is something that I am good at and I love. But in fact, like someone else could do that just as good as I could, but they can't do this, right? Like no one else is gonna be the founder who can get on a stage and talk about our growth journey, right? Only I can do that, our co-CEO to some degree, right? But like the one piece that I didn't want to let go of was matching clients and consultants because I thought I was just like the magic whisperer who knew all the things and I was so good at it. And I got such a sense of like personal satisfaction when I made that perfect match. And then the a client would come and say, This is my need. And I'm like, I know just the person for you. And that brought me so, so much joy. And it was so hard to let go of, but we grew from, you know, having 50 consultants to now over 400. And so, A, I don't know all the consultants anymore. So I can't say that's the right person. Now we have whole teams who run both of those departments, right? The sales and the and the client matching. And so I think it's just sort of knowing when to get out of your own way, right? Like I had to, it wasn't until I went on a vacation and I was like, I'm not gonna work for the next three weeks that someone else did it and then did it just as well as I did. So I was like, oh, okay, I guess I'm not the unicorn I thought I was.

Tish Squillaro 12:57

No, well, looks you are in your own right, but you've learned to let others take things on. I mean, you probably could still do it all, but you wouldn't be as big as you are and you wouldn't be able to service as many clients.

Maddy Niebauer 13:08

Yeah. I mean, that's the thing, right? Like I think you have to learn how to let other people lean in.

Tish Squillaro 13:13

Now, as someone who sits with the clients and talks about what they need, how often do you have to help them figure out what they need?

Maddy Niebauer 13:21

Yeah, there's always some of that. Yeah. And it's not something I actually do anymore, but when I was doing it, you know, clients will come to you with what they think they need. And then we had a diagnostic process, a needs assessment where we look at all these different categories of things we can do and just try to identify where are the gaps in each of those areas and like where might we lean in. And sometimes, you know, they thought they had problem A, but then you also see problem B, C, D, E. And so you sort of guide them to say, we can do this. Let us know if you want us to. More often, actually, what happens is they come to us with a need, we meet that need, and then they come up with their own list of like 85 other things that they're like, oh, you were so good at getting that off my plate. Now you can take care of this also. Um, so what I would say is we just have a lot of shifts in in our projects. We work on like a monthly retainer model, so it's not project-based. Like people can work, use us in whatever ways they see fit. And that often just changes a lot over the course of an engagement.

Tish Squillaro 14:27

I would imagine. I mean, the same with my business. When I'm brought in, there's always something not working. I I wish they'd bring me in while it's all working well. Because I do think a lot of the teamwork that I do is to enhance what's already a great foundation. Most often I'm brought in to build the foundation with them because they don't have certain pillars of like trust or accountability on one another. And so when you have to navigate right people, right seats diagnosis, that's when you would be a perfect come in, because what we've uh outlined is that that seat has someone terrific, but not the right fit anymore, right? And sometimes it's how do you navigate that into a okay, what is the right role for the person that's in it now? And can we give them another seat? And how do we find that person that now is going to catch up and fit in? It's not easy. So I do see why it would probably shift where you think someone's coming in at this, and then they take on these other things, and before you know it, they may have a whole different job than they thought they were getting, but it's a good fit for them, right? It's a good fit for them.

Maddy Niebauer 15:31

Yeah, exactly. And like you were saying, like it would be great if people brought us in when things were going great to sort of emphasize or build on that. Often we're coming in when it's like, oh, this person suddenly unexpectedly left, or you know, that some other sort of big fire drill that that needs to be dealt with. So it's not always a place where you can operate really strategically around like, okay, in an in a perfect blue sky world, we're gonna do this. It's like, no, these are the fire drills that are happening that need to get dealt with right the second.

Tish Squillaro 16:02

Now, is AI impacting what you do? I mean, AI is everywhere, it's on every conversation, it's in every conversation. It is. And it, you know, it certainly um is a very important sort of evolution for all of us. But how is it impacting what you do, or does it impact what you do?

Maddy Niebauer 16:19

Yeah, I would say it's starting to. We are definitely thinking a lot about it internally, both in terms of our systems and the way that they function and ways that we can automate our processes and learn and grow as we implement them. So there's definitely things that we are using internally, even just things like not just having AI take notes from our call, but also feeding it previous scopes of work and then having it take the notes and building the scope of work, but also having it listen to the sales call and give feedback to the team members who are doing the sales calls. And so there's just like so many different ways that it that we can lean in and use it. I'm actually really excited because next week I'm going to a hackathon. I'm in an organization called EO Entrepreneurs Organization, and they're having AI experts come and we're spending my co-CEO and I are spending the day, and the goal is to come away with like an AI tool actually built that you are able to implement in that one day. We'll see what we do, but I'm excited about it. More importantly, I think how we're thinking about it for clients is you know, there's a lot of different levels of expertise on the AI front. And I think by and large, our clients are maybe not as sophisticated as some of the big, you know, enterprise level organizations. So they're thinking about AI. They might be using AI in simple ways, replacing Google, right? Or using some simple agents or other things like that. We are not AI experts, like people are not outsourcing to us to do AI development, but our people, we are working to build the skills in AI of our consultants so they can come in with our clients and say, here are some ways that you could use off-the-shelf AI in different ways in your organization, whether that's reporting or you know, other things like that, that just take off some of the administrative burden from other people on the team. And then when there are, you know, sort of bigger custom AI type projects that could be good, we have a number of AI development organizations that we are partnered with that we will send work to. So it is just something that is super top of mind. Every conference that I've been to lately, that's literally all anyone is talking about. I know. And I think everybody's in this space of like, I know I should be doing this and I'm not doing it as much as I want to be. And so I think we are bringing the quick, easy lifts, right? Where you can get a lot without doing a whole lot, and then knowing when to bring in the relax.

Tish Squillaro 19:01

No, and I agree. I mean, I do think many of us know how to use it. Because I think we do use it. I just think certain people are under the impression that it's going to have this magical either saving of revenue revenue or cost or headcount reduction. Instead, we should look at it mainly as an efficient way to operate. And then if the efficiency leans itself into realizing you don't need that many people in that group, hey, we consolidate it over here. That's one thing. But I think we're all starting with the consolidation project first, not the use of it. I think we're smart enough to know how to use it. There's five different versions. Everyone knows how to get content and have it create stuff for you. And as long as you know what you're looking for, you actually can get great output. And then you use it. The note-taking, it's great. I mean, everything's summarized for you, right? I mean, it does make everyone's life easier from the standpoint of being efficient, but I don't think it replaces anyone just yet. And who knows, maybe down the road it might. But I don't think people should panic over that. And I feel like a lot of the panic is is it saving me money somewhere? Well, it depends how you measure money. If you're being more efficient, it probably is saving you money. Doesn't mean you have to have a headcount reduction. So I do think there's a little bit of us um calming down and realizing, wait a minute, we are all using it. My kids use it. You know adults in businesses are using it. So it's not that's not the case. But I appreciate how you're integrating it into making you more efficient to make your clients more efficient and actually what they're asking for. Because there's nothing like a summary of what they just said when they go, Did I say that? Right? Because sometimes you even forget what you've asked for, right? And that's just the way it is. So I have one last question that I do think is a terrific quote from you, which is you help businesses leaders work smarter, not longer. And I do think AI fits right into that, by the way. When you see things today in the market and you're watching, you know, where overall we could be working, you know, smarter and instead of longer, what would be one of those areas that you think would be good for us to take a look at as companies, CEOs, leaders, kind of looking at fine-tuning their way of working?

Maddy Niebauer 21:12

Honestly, I think in many ways it's really a mindset shift, right? Less than like a specific, like, oh, we all should not do this, right? I think when I talked a little bit earlier about the zone of genius, I think as leaders, we are all stretched thin. And so many people are in like back-to-back meetings every day. And I would argue that like probably half of those meetings don't need to exist. Like, we don't need to be on a meeting to get updates from someone. Like, that's much better in an email. Let's be on meetings where we're making decisions or having robust conversations or disagreements. And I think there is this mindset among leaders and among entrepreneurs that like if you're not hustling and working 50, 60, 80 hours a week, you're not doing enough. And I am of the opinion that if we, like I said, work smarter, you can work a lot less hours and actually have way more impact because you're spending your time on the things that only you should be focused on, right? And then you're automating with AI or other tools and delegating to other people on your team the things that, you know, either don't bring you joy or you're not great at, or somebody else should just be doing. And so I think in general, I think we as Americans spend too much time working. And if we had more time to spend, you know, with the people that we love or on other passions, not to say that like work isn't important. I just don't think anyone is on their bed, you know, grave side saying, gosh, I wish I worked more. Um and so I'm really passionate about helping people see like you don't actually have to work insane amounts in order to have a successful company. I built VC into a five-time Inc. 5000 company working less than 20 hours a week. I just don't think you have to. And so that is what I hope to show people.

Tish Squillaro 23:07

You work smart. It sounds like you know to work smart, Maddie, and I do appreciate that. And I've heard great things. I am someone who actually saw the impact you brought to a company. So you have some magic to what you're doing, like everyone else is their magic or their genius zone that they have. And it is a matching game. I mean, I I do think matching right fit is an important element. And if you can guide your clients to do that in those very critical roles, it's priceless. It really is. And you don't have to spend a lot of time to know what's a right fit, they just have to be willing to listen. And it sounds like your clients do listen. So thank you. I mean, Maddie, it's been great to spend time. And um, I look forward to seeing more of eCHIF growing and you talking more about things. And I am of uh the same wavelength you are. I don't think I want to work longer. I do just want to work smarter. So with that, I appreciate your time today.

Maddy Niebauer 24:01

Thank you so much, Tish. It was a great conversation. I really appreciate it.