Tish Squillaro 0:00

Hello everyone. Thanks for joining my podcast, Candor with Tish. My name is Tish Squillaro. As you know, every week I have a new CEO guest to talk a little bit about leadership, scaling their business, and the things that made them think through what they needed to do for themselves to be a success for their business and their teams. Today I have Jeffrey Orenstein, founder and CEO of J. Bryce Design International. He's built an amazing respected design firm that has worked with lots of luxury projects, including royalty presidents, and prime ministers. So that's very exciting, Jeff. I would love to hear a little bit about that. I'm sure there's a story with each and every one of them. Maybe you could share a little bit about yourself. I feel each guest should give themselves a few minutes just to talk about high-level their position and their story, and then we'll go into a couple of questions. You and I have a very casual conversation.

Jeff Ornstein 0:53

Excellent. Well, I can tell you that I studied the fine arts and art history and through the academic year as an undergraduate. And over the summers I studied architecture. And I thought I was going to pursue a master's in architecture. And I ended up deferring for a year. And I went to work for an architectural firm, and I realized I don't think I want to do this. And I was really at a loss. And a friend of mine said, Well, why don't you think about interior design? And it seems so stupid now, but it had never crossed my mind. But she said, You like color, you like pattern, motif, you like architecture, and you can really affect people's lives. So I applied for a job and I got it. And I've actually been a hotel designer from my very first job in 1983 to present. So it's the only it's the only industry I've ever known. Yeah. That's a pretty unusual here in America. When I was very fortunate, Boston was a hub for hotel design firms, and I was able to work with some very respected firms and did some terrific work. And then when I was 29, I said, you know, I think I can do this. It was a little bit going out on a limb, but I had made a lot of strong relationships along the way. And I borrowed a typewriter from a girlfriend that didn't type W. And I hand wrote in my W's and all my introduction letters to I knew there'd be a story with you, Jeff.

Tish Squillaro 2:14

That's fabulous.

Jeff Ornstein 2:15

Yeah. And by the end of the first week, we had uh two hotel projects and a restaurant. So we really hit the ground running. And then I can recall, you know, saying to one of my big clients, it was Jim Bradley, who's the president of the Beacon Hotel Corporation, I really appreciate your support in these projects, but you know, I want the big enchiladas, you know, I want the new builds. And he's like, Jeff, you're 29 years old, and you've been in business for six months, and I I can't justify that. But just wait, just wait. And I remember going home saying, I just want to be older. I just want to be older.

Tish Squillaro 2:46

Now I want the opposite, Jeff.

Jeff Ornstein 2:48

I know. Well, unfortunately, that wish came true. But I had made a lot of good relationships along the way, strong relationships, and business is so much about relationships. So, of course, like when you're uh considered an interior design giant, you have credibility. Your portfolio warrants it, the size of your projects warrant it. But the truth is that anyone within that pond is equally skilled and qualified. So who are you gonna do business with? Now, granted, there are firms that specialize more in resorts, specialize more in conference centers, but the fact is that once you are skilled and adept at designing hotel interiors, master planning them, doing the interior architecture and the interior design, it's basically gonna boil down to maybe a particular style, but also who makes the process pleasant. Because this is a marriage, because the projects last for years. So I do think that the strong friendships and relationships that I sort of nurtured along the way, and just my my personality made it so that we are people were knocking on our door. And I actually didn't do any really serious marketing for the first six or seven years because the phone just kept ringing. But now I can share with you, having been through four recessions and a pandemic, that's not a good idea. You should always market, even when you're busy.

Tish Squillaro 4:04

Very true. Yeah, I mean, I agree. I do think having been in business for like you a long time, over 26 years, and we've seen a lot, pandemics and and crashes of the market. I do think this time is probably the slowest and most confused in the market that I've seen. I think people are there's a lot of uncertainty. There's growth and there's change, which again always brings uncertainty, which I'm sure we'll talk about as you grew your business. So since 29, you've been building your business.

Jeff Ornstein 4:31

29, yeah. We celebrated 37 years in January.

Tish Squillaro 4:34

My God, that's amazing. You know, our stories are somewhat similar too. I went to college thinking I want to be an attorney, and I took law classes. And in those classes, I was like, I can't do this. This is not for me. And I was glad I did that before I became a lawyer and then realized it because I did have friends who actually realized after the fact. And then your career career kind of follows you. You know, good advice by somebody. So you got good advice, I got good advice. Someone says, you know, maybe you should work with people and think about development. It's kind of similar about giving advice as it would be in legal or law. And that's how I started Cantor 26 years ago.

Jeff Ornstein 5:10

So excellent. Congratulations. 26 years is a very good strong run, also.

Tish Squillaro 5:14

But it is, yeah, you know, and I always wanted to be older. And now I'm like, oh God, can I reverse the clock? That would be so nice.

Jeff Ornstein 5:21

Every age has its rewards.

Tish Squillaro 5:22

True. And I do think even back then, and um a lot that I talk about with with folks who are young and want to rush it, is you can't buy experience. So we can be very smart and we can have a lot of talent. And I do think our youth are young, like my children who are in their early 20s starting their first jobs, they are bright and they're probably brighter and more versatile than I was. But you can't buy experience, right? And and so my first question for you is having now grown your business as the founder, over the years, founders always are concerned that they're not right anymore for the business because the business will scale and things will change. And when or did you ever feel that way about yourself in that, you know, this is not for me now? Maybe I'm not the right one for that next stage. You've stayed. So obviously there was a plan or some answers when you asked yourself that question. But I do think to my audience, which is mainly CEO founders, you know, how did you come to that? And what did you do about yourself to be able to sustain this 36 years as the CEO?

Jeff Ornstein 6:30

Well, you have to grow with the times, and there have been seismic shifts in our industry and hospitality, and you have to embrace them, understand them, understand how to implement them, and you really have to hire people who share the same commitment that you have. So our company's Jay Bryce Design, it's not Jeff Warenstein and Associates. I chose that because Picasso was his mother's maiden name. It was sort of a moniker, so it represents the vision of the many. And so I looked for people who felt that Jay Bryce was they had ownership of it as well. I would not say that I'm a micromanager at all, and you have to give people the room to express themselves, although I keep a close eye on everything, because at the end of the day, my name is on the project. So you have to keep abreast of the resources, maintain and nurture your relationships, because you don't want to have to go find a new hotelier or management company every year. And you want to give people an opportunity to express themselves within the parameters of what is right for the project in terms of the marketing for that project, the budget for that project, can it be accomplished within the timeline of the project? You know, we do a lot of our work historically overseas, so we have a lot of cultural parameters that we have to respect. We've gone on fact-finding message missions to different countries where we're working so that we're not just a design firm in Boston designing an interior in Oman or in Saudi. That we understand who are the people that are becoming there. Are they locals? Are they expats? Are they why are they coming to this hotel? Is it a social hotel for weddings or is it a conference hotel? So understanding the culture is also super important for you to grow and do your job well. It's not just about pretty. You know, it's not just, but it's a lot about on budget and on time. But it's got to function and s meet the objectives of your clients. When you're talking about a new hotel or a renovation for that matter, you're talking about huge sums of money. And these are revenue generating assets. And your clients, you may have a client that's got a hotel that was a vanity project, and this is a crown and it's jewel and so on and so forth. But for most, it's a revenue generating asset, and you have to respect that that's what they're that's what they're seeking. Yes, they want pretty, yes, they want comfortable, yes, they want functional, yes, they want to address current guest uh requirements, wellness, technology, nutrition, but it has to generate revenue. So surrounding yourself with people who share your same commitment is very important. And I will say, you know, having been in business as long as I have, I have seen a shift in the younger people that have come through this office. I don't know how to describe it, but when we started, people who came here singularly wanted to be designers. And I think uh the newer generation of kids that are coming through have a more open mindset that they think that, you know, I'm gonna try something out, and if this is, I find it doesn't work, I'm gonna move on. And and they kind of do move on a little bit faster than most. Okay. So we're we go through a more rigorous interview process because if we're gonna spend the time training them and making them understand why we do what we do and how we do it, and documentation is so important for success that we want to make sure they kind of stick around. So up until 2012, I think it was, the average tenure at Jay Bryce was over 17 years.

Tish Squillaro 9:54

Wow.

Jeff Ornstein 9:55

Yeah. We just had a senior designer retire after 29 years. And that's a testimony to the environment that we've fostered. Help. We're in a loft in downtown Boston, so we don't have any walls. People are constantly circulating. I encourage that. I encourage more eyes on details, on schemes, on budgets, because the best ideas will emerge through the talents of the many pooled together. So you have to, as the CEO, you have to realize the buck stops here, which is why I keep an eye on everything, particularly with budget and particularly with creative intent, but you have to make sure the other people that are working on it, the project project directors, senior designers, their assistants, have the same goal in mind. And if you have to drive that message home.

Tish Squillaro 10:43

And how do you do that, by the way, Jeff? We talk about alignment. So what I'm hearing is the culture in your organization is collaborative and empowering because you can try things new, and if it's not working, you know, it's not a bad thing, we move on. And the fact that people can move on quick probably keeps the business flow. So, how do you get alignment in or with your teams? Because over the last 36 years, it's great you've had people there for almost 17, 20 years, but have you seen it differently where people come and go? Like, so how does alignment consistently stay to what you want at the company so that it's the vision and mission that you started, you know, 36 years ago with evolving? But I do think culture doesn't change from morals and values. Like it still sounds like you want those basics to be part of the environment. So, what did you do to do that? Like how how how do you plan for that?

Jeff Ornstein 11:40

It's all about communication. So if you're reviewing work and it's missing the mark for whatever reason, you can't just say no. You have to walk them through it and you know have them learn the lesson of what it is you're trying to communicate to them. Basically, integrity is paramount. You have to do what you say you're gonna do. You have to fulfill the promises you've made to the client. So deadlines are should always be respected, calls should always be returned within 24 hours. That's a policy up here that even if you don't have the answer, a call to say, I'm working on it, I'm waiting for so-and-so to get back to me, or the factory, or what have you. And as soon as I have an update, I'll let you know. I have a policy that the phone is the primary source of communication. Maybe that makes me very old school, but emails get lost, they get overlooked. And it doesn't, they're not relationship building. So you want the client to understand you're on their team. And in particular, when there are multiple consultants on a project, you want all the consultants to understand that we're we're a team member here. We're all working for the same goal. Because at the end of the day, if any one consultant drops the ball and the project sort of goes south to a degree, it doesn't make a difference who dropped the ball.

Tish Squillaro 12:52

Right.

Jeff Ornstein 12:52

Everybody's in the Everybody's guilty by association. So when we find that there's a particular element, whether it's project management or purchasing or the architect or anyone, sort of is lagging behind, we'll step up and sort of try do what we can do to help fill in the gaps. Because if you have a client that's coming to you and giving you two or three nice projects and one plum project a year, you want to keep that client. Right. And you don't want them to say, Yeah, you know, Jay Bryce is great. We really like working with them, but that last project, you know, through this pretty bumpy road. They're not necessarily going to dur the nice ones will, but many will not necessarily differentiate. They'll remember that there was something that wasn't great about the project.

Tish Squillaro 13:33

And they'll look on to another company. It's always harder, I think, to sustain a relationship because you want to make sure that you can keep them. And I do think there should be focus on that. New relationships, you know, they're always gonna deliver something unknown. And so you don't know where it's gonna go. And I do think sometimes sales teams or even those just client-facing forget the existing client and are always chasing the new. And I always remind them someone that's been with you and knows you will stay with you if you show them the value and also the commitment to them. Don't take them for granted. I love that you said communication. So I do a lot of behavioral alignment with teams. So in when I'm brought into an organization, communication is always a thing that's broken. And it's not that they're not talking and they're not not having meetings, but they're not having the hard conversations, right? It's making sure, and you've already mentioned there's boundaries and protocols that you have set that you believe sustain a good relationship with your customer. And when someone's not doing them, the way to communicate, to hold each other accountable, bring up difficult conversations, address things that are not being met, is to be able to know how to have that conversation. So, how have you taught your teams how to communicate effectively with one another? Because you're right, you don't want to be the police that everyone has to go to Jeff to solve the problems. That's the last thing. And it doesn't sound like that's how you operate to be CEO for 36 years and have people stay. So, what did you do to help people understand how to communicate? Because I don't think they always naturally know how to do those things.

Jeff Ornstein 15:13

Some people are more articulate naturally than others. Some people are better writers by skill, talent, experience than others. And so you have to monitor how when they're approaching clients, the tone and the demeanor, the sense of urgency, the sense of respect, the fact they value them because I'm the rainmaker. Okay. But I'm the rainmaker with my cloud. The cloud is the company. So while I'm bringing in the projects and signing the contracts, of course I can't do that without a staff behind me. So I want to make sure everybody understands, like we're in this together. You know, I always say that to what you were saying earlier, like you're in until you're out. When you're in, you're in. And when you're out, you're out. Okay? And since we do get treated with a lot of respect, we don't do any advertising. We never advertised anything. All of our projects are through referral and through word of mouth. And we have amazing references, and people, you know, not only will they speak on our behalf or write on our behalf, they'll be able to do that.

Tish Squillaro 16:13

Which is very impressive, by the way, Jeff. You should be very proud of you and your team because for 36 years to have not a marketing campaign, but mainly word of mouth through the work you do, that is priceless. Yeah.

Jeff Ornstein 16:26

Priceless. And we've had clients that are enthusiastically saying, please come to our property. We'll give you a tour. Because they like to show it off, which is really surprising. Yeah, that's really sweet.

Tish Squillaro 16:35

We got to get you to Miami, because talk about luxury. I don't know if you ever come out this way, but I do think hospitality and designers are very important to the way Miami has transformed itself.

Jeff Ornstein 16:48

Aaron Powell Well, Miami's still great. It's thematic. We're actually doing a marriage in in Miami right now, and we're doing a uh embassy suites for the same client in Destin. So we've got a foot on each coast right now.

Tish Squillaro 17:02

That's good for you. Yes, I'm glad to hear that. I was gonna say I might have to introduce you to people because we could you utilize you here.

Jeff Ornstein 17:08

Aaron Powell I'd love to get my hands on one of those Art Deco properties. I love a theme because if you have a theme, to tap into a theme and then approach it just with distinction, you know, not you know, a non-formulaic approach, I think is you can really make a statement. And those are the kinds of properties that stand out. And that's what you want. You want your hotel to be memorable so that when your guests come to Miami, I only stay at, you know, the Frontier Inn because that's my place and I feel at home. So you want return customers is the name for success for any hotel property. Yeah, you have to twist my arm to come to Miami.

Tish Squillaro 17:41

I bet I don't so I have one last question for you, which is really a tip for my founders, CEOs out there who are building teams and want people to stay and evolve with their business like you have. There's some secret sauce that you have. Maybe there's just one recommendation you can make for those CEOs that are starting out or have their five, 10-year, and that's a long time, 36 years, to maintain credibility and impressive to have long-standing employees, which means people are enjoying and also excited to be under your leadership. What's something you can offer as a suggestion to those folks to say, hey, you know, it's not easy, but it works.

Jeff Ornstein 18:23

Be honest. Just be honest. And sometimes being honest and straightforward can be a little bit more challenging than it appears. The interview process is paramount. I mean, I check out references frequently because someone could look great on paper and someone could come across great in an interview, but you want to understand the person as well as the professional. So and be direct. Be direct. And then you can't ignore the importance, and we talked about this a little bit, of the mentoring process. If you want someone to be in a of a certain mold, you've got to participate in that mold. So you have to invest in the people. And that way they'll see your attention to them, they'll understand, because you'll if they don't get it the first time, say it again. You've got to be patient. They have to be willing to invest in people if you want them to invest in the in the compass.

Tish Squillaro 19:11

I believe that 150%, and I'll tell you that's what 2026 is not showing me. I'm not watching leadership of all industries at all stages of growth. We're kind of caught up in technology and the rush to get where we need to go. And I'm afraid, but I'm sure we'll come around because we're we're a human race that's very resilient. But the investing in people, either your way, Jeff, which is being open, honest, and direct. I know when I come into an organization, I help give tools to help people be able to communicate, make better decisions. You know, that honesty and candor, right, is what's missing right now. And I think that's why a lot of people are nervous about the future. Like I know a lot of young folks coming out of college, not able to get jobs, and there's a little bit of a fear factor involved because the investing in people is coming second to investing in tech, which I think we got to figure out how to do both. Just come up with a compromise. I think we need both. But people in particular will respond with human behaviors if not looked after. Technology won't.

Jeff Ornstein 20:23

No. And again, if I since I believe it's a relationship built, success of any business is based on relationship building, that's that's a personal element. That's not gonna that's not gonna happen through AI. It's gonna happen through someone caring for the person and the client and understanding that the designer they've hired is caring about the project. It might sound a little hokey, but it's true.

Tish Squillaro 20:45

No, it's look old school, like you and I. Basics always win and they always hold true. And look, we've invented things to complement our basics, but we shouldn't do away with the basics. So with that, Jeff, thank you so much. I know my audience has learned a lot. I've learned a lot, and I look forward to maybe seeing you here in Miami. We'll connect after this to see if we could get you here. And thank you again. I look forward to seeing you stay another 36 years. Well, maybe retire soon.

Jeff Ornstein 21:13

A little bit, slow down a little bit. Well, it's a pleasure meeting you and being on your podcast and sharing my my perspectives for whatever they're worth.

Tish Squillaro 21:20

They were great. Thank you so much.

Jeff Ornstein 21:22

Thank you.